(Vol. iv., p. 412.)
With reference to my Note, ascribing a Celtic origin to this symbol, I
have just met with somewhat of a curious coincidence, to say the least
of it. In Richardson's Travels in the Sahara, &c., vol. i. p. 420.,
speaking of the camel, he says:
"The camels have all public and private marks, the former for
their country, the latter for their owner; and, strange enough,
the public mark of the Ghadames camel is the English broad R."
&c. [Arrow, he should have said.]
Now, the Celtic ↑
(as before mentioned) is
typical of superior holiness, &c. &c.; and it is singular that a city of
Marabouts (saints or holy men, such as the Ghadamsee are described to
be) should have adopted this symbol as their public (or government)
mark. The population of Ghadames is a strange medley of Arabs,
Touaricks, negroes, half-breeds of all kinds, &c., and whence their
claim to superior sanctity does not appear.
That Celtic tribes once sojourned in Northern Africa is attested by
Druidical remains in Morocco and elsewhere. Mr. Richardson mentions the
frequent occurrence of pyramidal stones in the Sahara, incidentally,
without specifying whether they are rocks in sitû, or supposed to be
the work of man's hand. The language of Ghadames is one of the Berber
dialects; and according to Mr. Urquhart (Pillars of Hercules, vol. i.
p. 383.), these, or some of them, are said to contain so much of the
Celtic element, that Highlanders from the garrison of Gibraltar, and the
natives about Tangier, can mutually understand each other.
The above, however, are mere speculations; and I would suggest that,
previous to further research as to the origin of the broad arrow, it
would be as well to ascertain how long it has been used as "the King's
mark." I should incline to believe that the earliest mark upon
government stores was the royal cipher—ER (with a crown above) perhaps.
On old guns of Henry VIII. and Elizabeth, we find the rose and crown,
but no broad arrow; more frequently Elizabeth's bear her cipher. A few
articles I have seen of William III. are stamped with
WR (with a crown above): no broad arrow. Nor do I remember
having ever seen it upon anything older than George III. This, however,
is a question which may interest some gentleman of the Ordnance
Department, and induce him to make research where success is most likely
to reward his trouble, viz. in the Tower, in the Royal Arsenal at
Woolwich, or amongst the ancient records in the Ordnance Office; for I
presume there be such.
P. C. S. S. (Vol. iv., p. 371.) says that "he always understood" the
broad arrow represented the "Pheon" in the arms of the Sydney family;
but, as he quotes no authority, we are at liberty to doubt the adoption
and perpetuation of a bearing appertaining to any particular
master-general of ordnance as a "king's mark," howsoever illustrious or
distinguished he might be.
A. C. M.
Exeter
(Vol. ii., pp. 184. 459.; Vol. iii., p. 21.; Vol. vii., p. 114.)
Returning to this question, I will communicate a few extracts from the
Gerechtsdagboeken (Minutes of the Council) of the city of Leyden:—
Sept. 30, 1604.—"Die van de Gerechte opt voorschryven van
Zÿne Exe en versouc van Jan Woodtss, Engelsman, hebben
toegelaten ende geconsenteert dat hy geduyrende deze aenstaende
jaermarct met zyn behulp zal mogen speelen zeecker eerlick
camerspel tot vermaeckinge van der gemeente, mits van yder
persoen (comende om te bezien) nyet meer te mogen nemen nochte
genyeten dan twaelf penn., ende vooral betaelen tot een
gootspenning aen handen van Jacob van Noorde; bode metter roede,
vier guld. om ten behouve van de armen verstrect te worden."
Translation.
The magistrates, on the command of his Excellence, and on the
request of John Woodtss, an Englishman, have permitted and
consented that he, with his company, during the approaching
fair, may play certain decent pieces for the amusement of the
people, provided he take no more than twelve pennings from each
person coming to see, and, above all, pay to Jacob van Noorde
four guilders, to be applied to the use of the poor.
And again:
Jan. 6, 1605.—"Op't versouck aen die van de Gerechte gedaen
by de Engelsche Comedyanten om te mogen spelen: staet
geappostilleert. Die van de Gerechte deser stadt Leyden gesien
in haer vergaderinge opt Raedthuys der voors. stede, de
favorable brieven van Recommandatie ende testimoniael vanden
Forst van Brandenburch van de X Augustij des
jaers XVIc vier, mitsgaders t consent by Zyne Exie van
Nassau verleent den xxij Decembris laest verleden, Es
disponerende opt versouc int blanc van dezen, hebben voor zoo
veel in hem is, de Engelsche Commedianten ende musicyns toonders
in dezen, conform haer versouc toegelaten binnen deser stede te
mogen spelen en haer consten doen ouffenen ende vertoonen ter
gewoenlycke plaetse te weten opten groten hoff onder de
bibliotecque, dewelcke hem toonders mits dezen ten eynde
voorseyt, belast wert te werden ingeruymt, Ende dit al voor den
tyt van veertien dagen eerstcomende, en mits, voor den
jegenwoordige gracieuse toelatinge, gevende ten behouve van de
gemeene huysarmen dezer stede een somme van twaelf gulden van xl
groot tstuck. Aldus, gedaen opten vi January XVIc en̄ vyff.
My jegenwoordich en is get. J. van Hout."
Translation.
On the request to the magistrates of the English comedians to be
allowed to perform, was decided: The magistrates of this city of
Leyden, having seen in their assembly in the Town-House of the
aforesaid city, the favourable letters of recommendation and
testimonial of the Prince of Brandenberg of the 10th Aug., 1604,
as well as the consent granted by his Excellence of Nassau, the
22nd of Dec. last, have permitted the English comedians and
musicians, according to their request, to perform and exercise
and exhibit their arts in the accustomed place, namely, in the
great court under the library; and this for the space of
fourteen days, provided they, for this gracious permission,
give twelve guilders of forty groats a-piece to the poor of this
city. Done on the 6th Jan., 1605. Me present; and signed "J. van
Hout."
Elsevier.
Constanter has communicated the following lines of G. A. Brederode,
confirming the statements of Heywood and Tieck:
"Ick mach soo langh oock by geen reden-ryckers zijn:
Want dit volckje wil steets met allen menschen gecken,
En sy kunnen als d'aep haer afterst niet bedecken;
Sy seggen op haer les, soo stemmigh en soo stijf,
Al waer gevoert, gevult met klap-hout al haer lijf!
Waren 't de Engelsche, of andere uytlandtsche
Die men hoort singen, en soo lustigh siet dantse
Dat sy suyse-bollen, en draeyen als een tol:
Sy spreken 't uyt eaer geest, dees leeren 't uyt een rol.
't Isser weer na (seyd ick) als 't is, sey Eelhart schrander,
Dat verschil is te groot, besiet men 't een by 't ander!
D'uytheemsche die zijn wuft, dees raden tot het goedt,
En straffen alle het quaet bedecklelijck en soet."
To stay with rhetoricians I've no mind:
The fool they'll play with men of every kind,
And, like the ape, exhibit what's behind.
With gests so stiff their lesson they repeat,
You'd swear with staves their bodies were replete!
Heard you the men from merry England sing?
Saw you their jolly dance, their lusty spring?
How like a top they spin, and twirl, and turn?
And from the heart they speak—ours from a roll must learn....—From the Navorscher.
(Vol. v., p. 372.)
A. N. asks for some historical notices of the above fanatics: as he may
not be satisfied with Timperley's meagre allusion, allow me to refer him
to the Memoirs of the Lord Viscount Dundee: London, 1714. The author
of this, "An Officer of the Army," speaking of the stiff-necked
Presbyterians, says:
"At this time (1681), about thirty of these deluded people left
their families and business, and went to the hills, where they
lived in rocks and caves for some weeks. John Gib, sailor in
Borrowstowness, Walter Ker, in Trafritham, —— Gemmison, in
Linlithgow, were their chief leaders. They called themselves the
Sweet Singers of Israel, eat nothing that there was salt in or
paid tax to the king, blotted the name of king out of their
Bibles, and cohabited all together. When a party of dragoons
took them at the Ouffins, in Tweeddale, they were all lying on
their faces, and jumped up in a minute, and called out with an
audible voice, that God Almighty would consume the party with
fire from heaven, for troubling the people of God. On the road,
as they went to Edinburgh, when any of their relations or
acquaintances came to visit them, they spit at them, and threw
themselves on their faces, and bellowed like beasts, whereof his
Highness (the Duke of York, then in Scotland) being informed,
ordered them immediately to be set at liberty."
A more detailed account of these Gibbites will be found in the curious
Presbyterian biographies "collected by, and printed for Patrick Walker,
in the Bristo-Port of Edinburgh," the early part of last century. In
that entitled "Some remarkable Passages in the Life, &c. of Mr. Daniel
Cargill:" 12mo. Edin. 1732, A. N. will find the original story of the
crazy skipper and his band of "three men and twenty-six women," whom
worthy Mr. Cargill endeavoured unsuccessfully to reclaim. From this it
would appear that the sweet singers went far greater lengths than
above described, and that Gib, after the dispersion of his followers,
took himself off to America, "where," says the aforesaid Patrick, "he
was much admired by the blind Indians for his familiar converse with
the devil." For the further information of your correspondent, I would
add that Walker's account of the Gibbites is very well condensed in that
more accessible book Biographia Scoticana, better known as the Scots
Worthies, where the deluded Gib figures under the head of "God's
Justice exemplified in his Judgments upon Persecutors."
J. O.
(Vol. vii., p. 303.)
Mr. F. F. Spenser published the results of his researches relative to
Spenser in the Gentleman's Magazine for August, 1842; and towards the
end of his communication promised to record "many further interesting
particulars," through the same medium, but failed to do so. Mr. Craik
has made special reference to Mr. F. F. Spenser's paper in a little work
upon which he must have bestowed a vast deal of labour, and which
contains the completest investigation of all that has been discovered
concerning the life, works, and descendants of the poet that I have met
with: I refer to Spenser and his Poetry: by George L. Craik, M.A.: 3
vols. London, 1845. The appendix to vol. iii., devoted to an account of
the descendants of Spenser, among other interesting matter, contains the
history of the family descended from Sarah Spenser, a sister of Edmund
Spenser, which is still represented. To which I may add that Spenser's
own direct descendants are living in the city of Cork, and, I regret to
say, in reduced circumstances. This should not be. A pension might well
be bestowed on the descendants of Spenser, the only one of our four
great poets whose posterity is not extinct.
J. M. B.
Tunbridge Wells.
I have read with much curiosity and surprise a paragraph engrafted into
"N. & Q." (Vol. vii., p. 33.) from The Times newspaper, June 16, 1841,
announcing that a Mr. F. F. Spenser, of Halifax, had ascertained that
the ancient residence of his own family, at Hurstwood, near Burnley,
Lancashire, was the identical spot where the great Elizabethan poet,
Edmund Spenser, is said to have retired, when driven by academical
disappointments to his relations in the north of England.
I confess all this appears to me very like a hoax, there is such a
weight of negative testimony against it. Dr. Whitaker, the learned
historian of Whalley, describes Hurstwood Hall as a strong and
well-built old house, bearing on its front, in large characters, the
name of "Barnard Townley," its founder, and that it was for several
descents the property and residence of a family branched out from the
parent stock of Townley, in the person of John Townley, third son of Sir
Richard Townley, of Townley—died Sept. 1562. His son, Barnard Townley,
died 1602, and married Agnes, daughter and coheiress of George Ormeroyd,
of Ormeroyd, who died 1586.
It must be remembered that Hurstwood is in the immediate neighbourhood
of Dr. Whitaker's ancient patrimonial estate of Holme; and he must have
been familiar with all the traditionary history of that locality. Yet he
is silent on this subject, and does not allude either to the occasional
residence of the poet Spenser in those parts, or to the family of
Spensers, who are stated in this paragraph to have resided at Hurstwood
about four hundred years.
Clivigee.
(Vol. vii., p. 305.)
Sir John Maundeville says:
"Also, seven miles from Nazareth is Mount Cain, under which is a
well; and beside that well Lamech, Noah's father, slew Cain with
an arrow. For this Cain went through briars and bushes, as a
wild beast; and he had lived from the time of Adam, his father,
unto the time of Noah; and so he lived nearly two thousand
years. And Lamech was blind for old age."—Travels, chap. x.,
Bohn's Early Travels in Palestine, p. 186.
To which is appended the following note by Mr. Thomas Wright, the
editor:
"This legend arose out of an interpretation given to Gen. iv.
23, 24. See, as an illustration, the scene in the Coventry
Mysteries, pp. 44. 46.
Zeus.
J. W. M. will find this question discussed at length in the
Dictionnaire de Bayle, art. "Lamech," and more briefly in Pol.
Synopsis Criticorum, Gen. iv. 23.
The subject has been engraved by Lasinio in his Pitture a fresco del
Campo Santo di Pisa (tom. xvii.), after the original fresco by
Buonamico Buffalmacco, whose name is so familiar to readers of the
Decameron.
F. C. B.
Bayle relates this legend in his account of Lamech as follows:
"There is a common tradition that Lamech, who had been a great
lover of hunting, continued the sport even when, by reason of
his great age, he was almost blind. He took with him his son,
Tubal-Cain, who not only served him as a guide, but also
directed him where and when he ought to shoot at the beast. One
day, as Cain was hid among the thickets, Lamech's guide seeing
something move in that place, gave him notice of it; whereupon
Lamech shot an arrow, and slew Cain. He was extremely concerned
at it, and beat his guide so much as to leave him dead upon the
place."
One of the frescos of the Campo Santo at Pisa gives the whole subject,
from the offering of Abel's and Cain's sacrifice, to the death of the
young man by the hand of Lamech, painted by Pietre da Orvieto about
1390. In one corner of the fresco, Cain is depicted as a wild and shaggy
figure, crouched in a thicket, at which Lamech, at the suggestion of his
guide, shoots an arrow. Below, the homicide is represented as murdering
the cause of his error by blows on the head inflicted with his bow.
Cheverells.
The following note upon the name of Lamech may perhaps serve to throw a
little light upon the difficult passage in Genesis iv. 23,
24.—Lamech, in Celtic Lamaich, or Laimaig, means a slinger of
stones; and Lamech being dextrous in the use of that weapon the sling,
wantonly slew two young men, and boasted of the bloody deed to his two
wives, Adah and Zillah, blasphemously maintaining that as Cain for one
murder should be avenged sevenfold, so he, for his wanton act, would be
avenged seventy and seven fold upon whoever should slay him. It may be
considered strange that the name of Lamech should be Celtic, and that it
should signify a slinger; but I am strengthened in my opinion by
reference to the Hebrew alphabet, in which the letter l is called
lamed; but why it is so named the Hebrews cannot say. Now, if any one
examines the Hebrew ל he will perceive that it is by no
means a rude representation of a human arm, holding a sling with a stone
in it. The word Lamech is derived from lam, the hand; and the
termination signifies dexterity in shooting or discharging missiles
therewith.
It is curious to notice that the remaining names in the passage of
Scripture are Celtic: thus Cain is compounded of cend, first, and
gein, offspring,—pronounced Kayean, i. e. first begotten. Adah
means a fair complexioned, red-haired woman; and Zillah, peace, from
siotlad, pronounced shieta.
Francis Crossley.
Photographic Notes.—G. H. P. has communicated (Vol. vii., p. 186.) a
very excellent paper in reference to our numerous failures in the
collodion process; but the remedies he proposes are not, as he is aware,
infallible. He gives the recommendation you find in every work on the
subject, viz. to lift the plate up and down in the bath to allow
evaporation of ether. I have made experiments day after day to ascertain
the value of this advice, and I am convinced, as far as my practice
goes, that you gain nothing by it; indeed, I am sure that I much oftener
get a more even film when the plate is left in the bath for about two
minutes without lifting it out. I should be glad of other photographers'
opinion on the point.
I have never found any benefit, but much the contrary, from re-dipping
the plate in the bath; and I may observe the same of mixing a drop or
two of silver solution with the developing fluid.
I think with G. H. P. that the developing solution should be weak for
positives.
I omitted, in my description of a new head-rest, to say that it is
better to have all the parts in metal; and that the hole, through which
the arm runs, should be a square mortice instead of a round one, as is
usual. A screw at the side sets it fast; the lower portion of the
upright piece being round, and sliding up and down in a tube of metal,
as it does in the best rests, allowing the sitter to be placed in
different positions. All this is very difficult to describe, but a
slight diagram would explain it easily, which I would willingly, as I
have before said, send to any one thinking it worth writing to me for.
J. L. Sisson.
Edingthorpe Rectory.
On some Difficulties in Photographic Practice.—Being desirous to have
a glass bath for the silver, I was glad to find you had given (in
"Notices to Correspondents") directions for making one, viz. two parts
best red sealing-wax to one part of Jeffries' marine glue. I tried this,
but found the application of it to the glass impossible, as it set
immediately. Now, can you afford room for the means by which this may be
remedied; as my wish to substitute glass for gutta percha remains?
Now I am addressing you, may I offer one or two hints which may be of
service to beginners? If, after what has been considered a sufficient
washing of the glass, after the hypo., during the drying, crystals from
hypo. remaining appear, and which would most certainly destroy the
picture, I have found that by breathing well over these parts, and
immediately repeating the washing, all ill effects are thoroughly
prevented. To substitute hot water instead of breathing does not destroy
the hyposulphite, and therefore will not do.
When the plate shall be dry after the washing process, if a leaden, dim,
grey appearance occurs, I have found that by tenderly rubbing it with
fine cotton, and applying with a good-sized camel's hair pencil a
varnish of about 8-10ths spirits of turpentine and 2-10ths mastic
varnish, and then, before this gets dry, putting on the black varnish,
the grey effect will have been removed.
I have found the protonitrate of iron, as also the protosulphate, and
not seldom the pyrogallic, so difficult of application, that I have
stained and spoiled very good pictures. I have therefore used, and with
perfect success, a tray of gutta percha a little longer than the glass
(say one-fourth of an inch), and one-fourth of an inch deep; sliding
from one end the glass into the tray (supplied immediately before using
it), by which means the glass is all covered at once.
I think the Rev. Mr. Sisson's suggestion, viz. to send you some
of our specimens with collodion, a very proper one, if not declined on
your own part, and shall, for one, feel great pleasure in acting in
accordance with it.
You will, I trust, pardon any foregoing hints for beginners, as I well
know that I have lost several pictures by hypo-crystals, and very many
by the difficulty in developing.
L. Merritt.
Maidstone.
P.S.—I always find collodion by Dr. Diamond's formula capital,
and with it from five to ten seconds is time enough.
Mr. Weld Taylor's cheap Iodizing Process.—I have no doubt Mr.
Weld Taylor will be kind enough to explain to me two difficulties I
find in his cheap iodizing process for paper.
In the first place, whence arises the caustic condition of his solution,
unless it be through the decomposition of the cyanide of potassium which
is sometimes added? and if such caustic condition exists, does it not
cause a deposition of oxide of silver together with the iodide, thereby
embrowning the paper?
Why does the caustic condition of the solution require a larger dose of
nitrate of silver, and does not this larger quantity of nitrate of
silver more than outbalance the difference between the new process and
the old, as regards price? I pay 1s. 3d. for an ounce of iodide of
potassium of purest quality; the commoner commercial quality is cheaper.
F. Maxwell Lyte.
Somersetshire Ballad (Vol. vii., p. 236.).—
"Go vind the vicar of Taunton Deane," &c.
S. A. S. will find the above in The Aviary, or Magazine of British
Melody, a square volume published about the middle of last century; or
in a volume bearing the running title—A Collection of diverting Songs,
Airs, &c., of about the same period—both extensive depôts of old song;
the first containing 1344, and the last, as far as my mutilated copy
goes, extending to nearly 500 pages quarto.
J. O.
Family of De Thurnham (Vol. vii., p. 261.).—In reply to Θ. I send a few notes illustrative of the pedigree, &c. of the De
Thurnhams, lords of Thurnham, in Kent, deduced from Dugdale, public
records, and MS. charters in my possession, namely, the MS. Rolls of
Combwell Priory, which was founded by Robert de Thurnham the elder; from
which it appears that Robert de Thurnham, who lived tempore Hen. II.,
had two sons, Robert and Stephen. Of these, Robert married Joan,
daughter of William Fossard, and died 13 John, leaving a daughter and
sole heir Isabel, for whose marriage Peter de Maulay had to pay 7000
marks, which were allowed him in his accounts for services rendered to
the crown. Stephen, the other son, married Edelina, daughter of Ralph de
Broc, and, dying circiter 16 John, was buried in Waverley Abbey, Surrey.
He seems to have left five daughters and coheirs; viz. Mabilia, wife of
Ralph de Gatton, and afterwards of Thomas de Bavelingeham; Alice, wife
of Adam de Bending; Alianore, wife of Roger de Leybourne; Beatrice, wife
of Ralph de Fay; and Alienore, wife of Ralph Fitz-Bernard. Dugdale and
the Combwell Rolls speak of only four daughters, making no mention of
the wife of Ralph Fitz-Bernard; but an entry on the Fine Rolls would
seem almost necessarily to imply that she was one of the five daughters
and coheiresses. If not a daughter, she was in some way coheiress
with the daughters; which is confirmed by an entry in Testa de Nevill:
and, by a charter temp. Edw. I., I find Roger de Northwood, husband of
Bona Fitz-Bernard, in possession of the manor of Thurnham, with every
appearance of its having been by inheritance of his wife. With this
explanation, I have ventured to include Alianore, wife of Ralph
Fitz-Bernard, as among the daughters and coheiresses of Stephen de
Thurnham. The issue of all of these marriages, after a few years,
terminated in female representatives—among them the great infanta
Juliana de Leybourne—mingling their blood with the Denes, Towns,
Northwoods, Wattons, &c., and other ancient families of Kent.
I have two beautiful seals of Sir Stephen de Thurnham temp. John,—a
knight fully caparisoned on horseback, but not a trace of armorial
bearings on his shield; nor, in truth, could we expect to find any such
assigned to him at that early period.
L. B. L.
Major-General Lambert (Vol. vii., pp. 237. 269.).—Lambert did not
survive his sentence more than twenty-one years. His trial took place in
1661, and he died during the hard winter of 1683.
The last fifteen years of his life were spent on the small fortified
island of St. Nicholas, commonly called Drake's Island, situated in
Plymouth Sound, at the entrance to the Hamoaze.
Lambert's wife and two of his daughters were with him on this island in
1673. (See "N. & Q.," Vols. iv. and v.)
J. Lewelyn Curtis.
Loggerheads (Vol. v., p. 338.; and Vol. vii., pp. 192-3.).—Your
correspondent Cambrensis, whose communication on this subject I
have read with much interest, will excuse my correcting him in one or
two minor points of his narrative. The little wayside inn at Llanverres,
rendered famous by the genius of the painter Wilson, is still standing
in its original position, on the left-hand of the road as you pass
through that village to Ruthin. Woodward, who was landlord of the inn at
the time Wilson frequented it, survived his friend about sixteen years,
leaving six children (two sons and four daughters), none of whom
however, as Cambrensis surmises, succeeded him as landlord. His
widow shortly afterwards married Edward Griffiths, a man many years her
Junior, and who, at the period Cambrensis alludes to, and for a
lone time previous, was "mine host" of the "Loggerheads." Griffiths died
about three years ago, after amassing a large property by mining
speculations in the neighbourhood. There are, I believe, several fine
paintings by Wilson in the new hall of Colomendy, now the residence of
the relict of Col. Garnons. The old house, where Wilson lived, was taken
down about thirty years ago, to make way for the present structure.
T. Hughes.
Chester.
Grafts and the Parent Tree (Vol. vii., p. 261.).—In reply to J. P. of
this town, I beg to say that the belief, that "the graft perishes when
the parent tree decays," is merely one among a host of superstitions
reverently cherished by florists. The fact is, that grafts, after some
fifteen years, wear themselves out. Of course there cannot be wanting
many examples of the almost synchronous demise of parent and graft. From
such cases, no doubt, the myth in question took its rise.
C. Mansfield Ingleby.
Birmingham.
The Lisle Family (Vol. vii., pp. 236. 269.).—Mr. Garland's
Query has induced me to inquire, through the same channel, whether
anything is known about a family of this name, some of whom are buried
at Thruxton in Hampshire. There are four monuments in the church, two of
which are certainly, the others probably, erected to members of the
family. The first is a very fine brass (described in the Oxford
Catalogue of Brasses), inscribed to Sir John Lisle, Lord of Boddington
in the Isle of Wight, who died A.D. 1407. The next in
date, and I suppose of much the same period, is an altar-tomb under an
arch, which seems to have led into a small chantry. On this there are no
arms, and no inscription. The tomb is now surmounted by the figure of a
Crusader, which once lay outside the church, and is thought to be one of
the Lisles, and the founder of the original church. On the north side of
the chancel two arches looked into what was once a chantry chapel. In
the eastern arch is an altar-tomb, once adorned with shields, which are
now torn off. This chantry stood within the memory of "the oldest
inhabitant;" but it was pulled down by the owner of the land
appertaining to the chantry, and of its materials was built the church
tower. One of its windows forms the tower window, and its battlements
and pinnacles serve their old purpose in their new position. A modern
vestry occupies part of the site of the chantry, and shows one side the
altar-tomb I have last mentioned. This side has been refaced in Jacobian
style, and the arms of Lisle and Courtenay, and one other coat (the same
which occur on the brass), form part of the decoration. Two figures
belonging to this later work lie now on the altar-tomb, and many more
are remembered to have existed inside the chantry. The mixture of this
late Jacobian work with the old work of the chantry is very curious, and
can be traced all over what remains of it. The initials T. L. appear on
shields under the tower battlements.
I should be glad to find that these Lisles would throw any light on the
subject of Mr. Garland's inquiry; and if they do not, perhaps
some of your readers can give some information about them.
The coat of arms of this family is—Or, on a chief gules, three lioncels
rampant of the first.
R. H. C.
The Dodo in Ceylon (Vol. vii., p. 188.).—The bird which Sir J.
Emerson Tennent identifies with the dodo is common on Ceylonese
sculpture. The natives say it is now extinct, and call it the
Hangsiya, or sacred goose; but whether deemed sacred for the same
reason as the Capitoline goose, or otherwise, I must leave the author of
Eleven Years in Ceylon to explain, he being the person in this country
most conversant with Ceylonese mythology.
I now wish to call Sir Emerson's attention to a coincidence
that may be worthy his notice in connexion with his forthcoming work on
Ceylon.
If he will take the trouble to examine the model of the Parthenon, in
the Elgin Marble room of the British Museum, he cannot fail, to be
struck with its resemblance to the beautiful building he visited at
Polonaroowa, called the Jaitoowanarama. The dimensions of the respective
buildings I cannot at present ascertain; but the ground-plans are
precisely similar, and each was roofless. But the most striking
resemblance is in the position and altitude of the statues: that of the
gigantic Bhoodho is precisely similar, even in the posture of the right
arm and hand, to that of Minerva, the masterpiece of Phidias. On
consulting his notes, he may find the height of the statues to
correspond. That of Phidias was thirty-nine feet.
Ol. Mem. Ju.
Glen Tulchan.
Thomas Watson, Bishop of St. David's, 1687-99 (Vol. vii., p.
234.).—This harshly-treated prelate died at Great Wilbraham, near
Cambridge, on June 3, 1717, æt. eighty years; and, from a private letter
written at the time, seems to have been buried in haste in the chancel
of that church, "but without any service," which may perhaps imply that
there was not a funeral sermon, and the ordinary ceremony at a prelate's
burial. It is, however intimated that he died excommunicated. In
Paulson's History of Holderness is a notice of Bishop Watson, and of
his relatives the Medleys, who are connected with my family by marriage;
but the statement that the bishop "died in the Tower" is incorrect (vol.
i. Part II. p. 283.; vol. ii. Part I. p. 47.; Part II. p. 542., 4to.,
1840-1).
F. R. R.
Milnrow Parsonage.
He died in retirement at Wilburgham, or Wilbraham, in the county of
Cambridge, June 3, 1717, ætat. eighty.—See Gough's Camden, vol. ii.
p. 140., and Gentleman's Magazine, vols. lix. and lx.
Bishop Gobat was born in 1799, at Cremine, in the perish of Grandval, in
Switzerland. His name is not to be found in the list of graduates of
either Oxford or Cambridge. His degree of D. D. was probably bestowed on
him by the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Tyro.
Dublin.
Etymology of Fuss (Vol. vii., p. 180.).—
"Fuss, n. s., a low, cant word, Dr. Johnson says. It
is, however, a regularly-descended northern word: Sax.
Ƒuſ, prompt, eager; Su. Goth. and Cimbr. f u s, the same;
hence the Sax. Ƒẏſan, to hasten, and the Su. Goth. f
y s a, the same."—Todd's Johnson.
Richardson gives the same etymology, referring to Somner. Webster says,
"allied, perhaps, to Gr. φυσαω,
to blow or puff."
Zeus.
A reference to the word in Todd's Johnson's Dictionary will show, and
I think satisfactorily, that its origin is fus (Anglo-Saxon), prompt
or eager; hence fysan, to hasten. The quotation given is from Swift.
C. I. R.
Palindromical Lines (Vol. vii., p. 178.).—The sotadic inscription,
"
ΝΙΨΟΝ ΑΝΟΜΗΜΑ
ΜΗ ΜΟΝΑΝ ΟΨΙΝ,"
is stated (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. xl. p. 617.) to be on a font at
Sandbach in Cheshire, and (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. lxiii. p. 441.)
to be on the font at Dulwich in Surrey, and also on the font at Harlow
in Essex.
Zeus.
Nugget (Vol. vi., pp. 171. 281.; Vol. vii., pp. 143.
272.).—Furvus is persuaded that the word nugget is of home
growth, and has sprung from a root existing under various forms
throughout the dialects at present in use. The radical appears to be
snag, knag, or nag (Knoge, Cordylus, cf. Knuckle), a
protuberance, knot, lump; being a term chiefly applied to knots in
trees, rough pieces of wood, &c., and in its derivatives strongly
expressive of (so to speak) misshapen lumpiness.
Every one resident in the midland counties must be acquainted with the
word nog, applied to the wooden ball used in the game of "shinney,"
the corresponding term of which, nacket, holds in parts of Scotland,
where also a short, corpulent person is called a nuget.
So, in Essex, nig signifies a piece; a snag is a well-known word
across the Atlantic; nogs are ninepins in the north of England; a
noggin of bread is equivalent to a hunch in the midland counties;
and in the neighbourhood of the Parret and Exe the word becomes nug,
bearing (besides its usual acceptation) the meaning of knot, lump.
This supposed derivation is by no means weakened by the fact, that
miners and others have gone to the "diggins" from parts at no great
distance from the last-mentioned district; and we may therefore,
although the radical is pretty generally diffused over the kingdom,
attribute its better known application to them.
It is no objection that the word, in many of its forms, is used of rough
pieces of wood, as instances show that it merely refers to a rudis
indigestaque moles characteristic of any article in question.
Furvus.
St. James's.
Hibernis ipsis Hiberniores (Vol. vii., p. 260.).—This, which is no
doubt the proper form, will be found in Southey's Naval History of
England, vol. iv. p. 104., applied to "those of old English race who,
having adopted the manners of the land, had become more Irish than the
Irishry." The expression originally was applied to these persons in some
proclamation or act of parliament, which I think is quoted in the
History of England in Lardner's Cabinet Cyclopædia: but that work
has so bad an index as to make it very difficult to find any passage one
may want. Probably Southey would mention the source whence he had it, in
his collections for his Naval History in his Commonplace Book.
E. G. R.
The Passame Sares (mel. Passamezzo) Galliard (Vol. vi., pp. 311. 446.;
Vol. vii., p. 216.).—Will you allow me to correct a mistake into which
both the correspondents who have kindly answered my questions respecting
this galliard seem to have fallen, perhaps misled by an ambiguity in my
expression?
My inquiry was not intended to refer to galliards in general, the
tunes of which, I am well aware, must have been very various, but to
this one galliard in particular; and was made with the view of
ascertaining whether the air is ever played at the present day during
the representation of the Second Part of King Henry IV.
C. Forbes.
Temple.
Swedish Words current in England (Vol. ii., p. 231.).—I beg to inform
your correspondent that the following words, which occur in his list,
are pure Anglo-Saxon, bearing almost the same meaning which he has
attributed to them:—wÿrm; by, bya, to inhabit, becc; dioful;
dobl, equivalent to doalig: gœpung, a heap; lacan; loppe;
nebb; smiting, contagion; stæth, a fixed basis.
Eldon is Icelandic, from elldr, fire: hence we have "At slá elld úr
tinnu," to strike fire from flint; which approaches very near to a
tinder-box. Ling, Icel., the heath or heather plant: ljung I take to
be the same word. Gat, Icel. for way or opening; hence strand-gata,
the opening of the strand or creek. Tjarn, tiorn, Icel., well
exemplified in Malham Tarn in Craven.
C. I. R.
Gotch (Vol. vi., p. 400.).—The gotch cup, described by W. R., must
have been known in England before the coming of the present royal
family, as it is given in Bailey's Dictionary (1730) as a south
country word: it is not likely to have become provincial in so short a
time, nor its origin, if German, to have escaped the notice of old
Φιλὁλογος. The A.-S. verb geotan seems to have had the sense
of to cast metals, as giessen has in German. In Bosworth's
Anglo-Saxon Dictionary is leadgota, a plumber. In modern Dutch this
is lootgieter. Thus, from geotan is derived ingot (Germ.
einguss), as well as the following words in Halliwell's Dictionary:
yete, to cast metals (Pr. Parv.), belleyetere and bellyatere, a
bell-founder (Pr. Parv.); geat, the hole through which melted metal
runs into a mould; and yote, to pour in. Grose has yoted, watered, a
west country word.
E. G. R.
Passage in Thomson: "Steaming" (Vol. vii., pp. 87. 248.).—This word,
and not streaming, is clearly the true reading (as is remarked by the
former correspondents), and is so printed in the editions to which I am
able to refer. The object of my Note is to point out a parallel passage
in Milton, and to suggest that steaming would there also be the proper
reading:
"Ye mists and exhalations, that now rise,
From hill or streaming lake, dusky or gray,
Till the sun paint your fleecy skirts with gold,
In honour to the world's great Author, rise."
Paradise Lost, Book v.
Cuthbert Bede, B.A.
[The reading is steaming in the 1st edition of Paradise
Lost, 1667.—Ed.]
The Word "Party" (Vol. vii., pp. 177. 247.).—The use of this word for
a particular person is earlier than Shakspeare's time. It no doubt
occurs in most of our earliest writers; for it is to be found in
Herbert's Life of Henry VIII., in his translation of the "Centum
Gravamina" presented to Pope Adrian in 1521, the 55th running thus:
"That, if one of the marryed couple take a journey either to the
warres, or to perform a vow, to a farre countrey, they permit
the party remaining at home, if the other stay long away, upon
a summe of money payd, to cohabite with another, not examining
sufficiently whether the absent party were dead."
It may also be found in Exodus xxii. 9., where, though it occurs in the
plural, it refers to two individuals:
"For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which
another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall
come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he
shall pay double unto his neighbour."
H. T. Ellacombe.
Clyst St. George.
Curious Fact in Natural Philosophy (Vol. vii., p. 206.).—In reply to
Elginensis I send you a quotation from Dr. Golding Bird's
Natural Philosophy in explanation of this well-known phenomenon:
"One very remarkable phenomenon connected with the escape of a
current of air under considerable pressure, must not be passed
over silently. M. Clement Desormes (Ann. de Phys. et Chim.,
xxxvi. p. 69.) has observed, that when an opening, about an inch
in diameter, is made in the side of a reservoir of compressed
air, the latter rushes out violently; and if a plate of metal or
wood, seven inches in diameter, be pressed towards the opening,
it will, after the first repulsive action of the current of air
is overcome, be apparently attracted, rapidly oscillating within
a short distance of the opening, out of which the air continues
to emit with considerable force. This curious circumstance is
explained on the supposition, that the current of air, on
escaping through the opening, expands itself into a thin disc,
to escape between the plate of wood or metal, and side of the
reservoir; and on reaching the circumference of the plate, draws
after it a current of atmospheric air from the opposite side....
The plate thus balanced between these currents remains near the
aperture, and apparently attracted by the current of air to
which it is opposed."
Dr. G. B. then describes the experiment quoted by Elginensis as
"a similar phenomenon, and apparently explicable on similar principles."
(Bird's Nat. Phil., p. 118.)
Cokely.
Lowbell (Vol. vii., p. 272.).—I may add to the explanation of this
word given by M. H., that low, derived from the Saxon lœg, is
still commonly used in Scotland for a flame; hence the derivation of
lowbell, for a mode of birdcatching by night, by which the birds,
being awakened by the bell, are lured by the light into nets held by the
fowlers. In the ballad of St. George for England, we have the
following lines:
"As timorous larks amazed are
With light and with a lowbell."
The term lowbelling may therefore, from the noise, be fitly applied to
the rustic charivari described by H. T. W. (Vol. vii., p. 181.) as
practised in Northamptonshire.
J. S. C.
Life and Correspondence of S. T. Coleridge (Vol. vii., p.
282.).—There can be but one opinion and feeling as to the want which
exists for a really good biography of this intellectual giant; but there
will be many dissentients as to the proposed biographer, whose life of
Hartley Coleridge cannot be regarded as a happy example of this class of
composition. A life from the pen of Judge Coleridge, the friend of
Arnold and Whateley, is, we think, far more to be desired.
Θ.
Coniger, &c. (Vol. vii., pp. 182. 241.).—At one extremity, the
picturesque range of hills which forms the noble background of Dunster
Castle, co. Somerset, is terminated by a striking conical eminence,
well-wooded, and surmounted by an embattled tower, erected as an object
from the castle windows. This eminence bears the name of The Coniger,
and is now a pheasant preserve. Mr. Hamper, in an excellent notice of
Dunster and its antiquities, in the Gentleman's Magazine, October,
1808, p. 873., says:
"The Conygre, or rabbit-ground, was a common appendage to
manor-houses."
Savage, however, in his History of the Hundred of Carhampton, p. 440.,
is of opinion that
"Coneygar seems to be derived from the Anglo-Saxon Cyning,
King; and the Mœso-Gothic Garas, the same as the Latin
Domus, a house, that is, the king's house or residence. Mr.
Hamper has some notion that Conygre means a rabbit-ground,
&c., but Mr. H. does not go high enough for his etymology;
besides, how does it appear that a rabbit-ground was at any time
an appendage to manor-houses? There is no authority for the
assertion."
I give you this criticism on Mr. Hamper valeat quantum, but am
disposed to think he is right. At all events there are no vestiges of
any building on the Coniger except the tower aforesaid, which was
erected by the present Mr. Luttrell's grandfather.
Balliolensis.
In the Irish language, Cuinicear, pronounced "Keenèkar," is a
rabbit-warren. Cuinin is the diminutive of cu, a dog of any sort;
and from the Celtic cu, the Greeks took their word
κυων, a
dog. I am of opinion that the origin of rabbit is in the Celtic word
rap, i. e. a creature that digs and burrows in the ground.
Fras. Crossley.
Cupid crying (Vol. i., p. 172.).—I had no means (for reasons I need
not now specify) of referring to my 1st Vol. of "N. & Q." until
yesterday, for the pretty epigram given in an English dress by
Rufus and as the writer in the Athenæum, whose communication
you quote on the same subject (Vol. i., p. 308.), observes "that the
translator has taken some liberties with his text," I make no apology
for sending you a much closer rendering, which hits off with great
happiness the point and quaintness of the original, by a septuagenarian,
whose lucubrations have already been immortalised in "N. & Q."
Cur natum cædit Venus? arcum perdidit, arcum
Nunc quis habet? Tusco Flavia nata solo:
Qui factum? petit hæc, dedit hic, nam lumine formæ
Deceptus, matri se dari crediderat."
Wherefore does Venus beat her boy?
He has mislaid or lost his bow:—
And who retains the missing toy?
Th' Etrurian Flavia. How so?
She ask'd: he gave it; for the child,
Not e'en suspecting any other,
By beauty's dazzling light beguil'd,
Thought he had given it to his mother."
F. T. J. B.
Westminster Assembly of Divines (Vol. vii., p. 260.).—Dr. Lightfoot's
interesting and valuable "Journal of the Assembly of Divines," from
January 1, 1643, to December 31, 1644, will be found in the last volume
of the edition of his Works, edited by Pitman, and published at
London, 1825, in 13 vols. 8vo. I believe a few copies of the 13th volume
were printed to be sold separately.
The MS. Journal in three thick folio volumes, preserved in Dr.
Williams's library, Redcross Street, London, is attributed to Dr. Thomas
Goodwin.
A MS. Journal, by Geo. Gillespie, from Feb. 2, 1644, to Oct. 25, 1644,
in 2 vols., is in the Advocates' Library, Edinburgh.
The Rev. W. M. Hetherington published a tolerably impartial History of
the Westminster Assembly, Edinburgh, 1843, 12mo.
The most important work, as throwing light upon the proceedings of the
Assembly, is the Letters and Journals of Robert Baillie. The only
complete edition of these interesting documents is that edited by David
Laing, Esq., and published in 3 vols. royal 8vo., 1841-2.
John I. Dredge.
Mr. Stansbury will find the "Journal of the Assembly of
Divines," by Lightfoot, in the new edition of his Works, vol. xiii.
pp. 5. et seq. Some further light is thrown upon the subject by a
parliamentary paper, printed "for the service of both Houses and the
Assembly of Divines." A copy of it is preserved in our University
library (Ff. xiv. 25.). I have referred to both these documents in A
History of the Articles, &c., pp. 208-9.
C. Hardwick.
St. Catharine's Hall, Cambridge.
The Journal kept by Lightfoot will be found in the 13th volume of his
Works, as edited by the Rev. J. R. Pitman: London, 1825, 8vo. It
should be studied by all those who desire to see a revived Convocation.
S. R. M.
Epigrams (Vol. vii., pp. 175. 270.).—"Suum cuique" being a principle
which holds good with regard to literary property as well as to property
of every other description, I can inform your correspondent
Balliolensis that the epigram on Dr. Toe, which he says was
"represented to have proceeded from the pen of Thomas Dunbar, of
Brasenose," was in reality the production of my respected neighbour, the
Rev. William Bradford, M.A., rector of Storrington, Sussex. It was
written by that gentleman when he was an undergraduate of St. John's
College, Oxford. Balliolensis may rely upon the accuracy of
this information, as I had it from Mr. Bradford's own lips only
yesterday. The correct version of the epigram is that given by
Scrapiana, p. 270.
R. Blakiston.
Ashington, Sussex.
"God and the world" (Vol. vii., pp. 134. 297.).—These lines are
found, as quoted by W. H., in Coleridge's Aids to Reflection, p. 87.,
ed. 1831. Coleridge gives them as the words of a sage poet of the
preceding generation (meaning, I suppose, the generation preceding that
of Archbishop Leighton, a passage from whose works he has introduced as
an aphorism just before). I have often wondered who this poet was, and
whether the last line were really a quotation from Macbeth, or whether
Shakspeare and the unknown poet had both but borrowed a popular saying.
I also had my suspicions that Coleridge himself might have patched the
verses a little; and the communication of your correspondent
Rt., tracing the lines in their original form to the works of
Fulke Greville Lord Brooke, now verifies his conjecture. It may be worth
while to point out another instance of this kind of manufacture by the
same skilful hand. In the first volume of The Friend (p. 215., ed.
1818), Coleridge places at the head of an essay a quotation of two
stanzas from Daniel's Musophilus. The second, which precedes in the
original that which Coleridge places first, is thus given by him:
"Since writings are the veins, the arteries,
And undecaying life-strings of those hearts,
That still shall pant and still shall exercise
Their mightiest powers when Nature none imparts;
And the strong constitution of their praise
Wear out the infection of distemper'd days."
Daniel wrote as follows (vol. ii. p. 373., ed. 1718):
"For these lines are the veins, the arteries
And undecaying life-strings of those hearts,
That still shall pant and still shall exercise
The motion spirit and nature both imparts,
And still with those alive so sympathize,
As nourish'd with their powers, enjoy their parts."
C. W. G.
Skating Problem (Vol. vii., p. 284.).—The Query of your correspondent
recalls the one said to have been put by King James to the members of
the Royal Society: "How is it," said the British Solomon, "that if two
buckets of water be equipoised in a balance, and a couple of live bream
be put into one of them, the bucket containing the fish does not
overweigh the other?" After some learned reasons had been adduced by
certain of the philosophers, one of them said, "Please your Majesty,
that bucket would be heavier by the exact weight of the fish." "Thou art
right," said the sapient king; "I did not think there had been so much
sense among you." Now, although I do not mean to say that A
Skater propounds for elucidation what he knows to be a fallacy, yet
I do assert that he is mistaken as to the fact alleged. He recommends
any one who is "incredulous" to make the trial—in which case, the
experimenter would undoubtedly find himself in the water! I advise an
appeal to common sense and philosophy: the former will show that a
person in skates is not lighter than another; the latter, that ice will
not fracture less readily beneath the weight of an individual raised on
a pair of steel edges, than one on a pair of flat soles—all other
circumstances being the same; the reverse, indeed, would be the fact.
The true explanation of the "problem" is to be found in the
circumstance, that "a skater," rendered confident by the ease with which
he glides over ice on which he could not stand, will often also
"stand" securely on ice which would break under the restless feet of a
person in his shoes only. This has always appeared to be the obvious
reason for the apparent anomaly to one who is
No Skater.
Parochial Libraries (Vol. vi., p. 432.).—Let me add to the list of
parochial libraries that at Wendlebury, Oxon, the gift of Robert
Welborn, rector, cir. 1760. It consists of about fifty volumes in folio,
chiefly works of the Fathers, and, if I remember rightly, Benedictine
editions. It was originally placed in the north transept of the church,
but afterwards removed to the rectory. I believe that the books were
intended for the use of the rector, but were to be lent to the
neighbouring clergy on a bond being given for their restoration. After
many years of sad neglect, this library was put into thorough order a
few years ago by the liberality of the Rev. Jacob Ley, student of Ch.
Ch.
Cheverells.