I began by telling him of the situation
in France, comparing its actual condition
with that of the days before the 4th
of September. I tried to show him what
had been done since the disaster of Sedan,
from the fall of the Empire and the coming
of the Republic till the present moment.
I pointed out—and he agreed—that after
Sedan France was face to face with despair.
She was in chaos, in the void; nothing remained;
everything had to be recreated.
Paris was without arms and soldiers.
The provinces were discouraged and denuded
of everything that might allow of
a single day’s resistance. The enemy’s
armies were advancing without obstacle,
invading France town by town, province
by province, devastating the country and
trampling it underfoot....
After this distressing but truthful picture,
this miasma of exhaustion and desolation,
I drew for him a picture of the awakening
of the great nation on the day after the 4th
of September. I described its hope when
there was no more hope, its courage when
courage was madness, its resistance when
all means of resistance were at an end.
I described the whole nation erect, from
Paris down to the smallest hamlet lost in
the mountains, unconquered and unconquerable,
strong and proud and with arms
in its hands. A force had been created out
of nothing, and arms out of the Void.
Lord Granville listened.
He listened long, without making the
slightest movement.
My words became more and more animated.
He followed them, if I may
describe it so, with his eyes....
“You see, M. le Comte,” I said at last,
“you see what we have done, and from
that you can judge what we are still
capable of doing and what we will certainly
do. Paris is determined to undergo
the greatest rigours of war rather than
surrender.
“The provinces, who for a moment
hesitated, plunged as they were in that
evil habit of waiting for everything to
come from above and never undertaking
anything themselves, the provinces also
have awakened to the inspiration of a
powerful genius and have risen as one
man. They also are up and resolute.
They are animated by the same spirit,
penetrated by the same conviction, and
inflamed with the same courage. All
France is in arms. She has lifted high
her flag, on which she has written:
“Victory or death!”
He still listened without a movement.
Had I spoken into space? Was silence
to fall before the conversation had well
commenced?
Was this silence to be interpreted as
approval, or, on the contrary, was the
eminent statesman’s mouth closed by the
painful impression of complete disapprobation?
I looked into his eyes and said: “I have
spoken frankly and sincerely to you, from
the very bottom of my heart; have you no
answer to give me?”
His profound blue eyes rested on mine
for a moment, then he said slowly, almost
stumblingly:
“M. Thiers, who came to see me, has
already spoken to me as eloquently as you
have to-day.
“All that you have done is admirable,
and France has shown an elasticity which
has astonished everyone. I have already
said so to M. Thiers. I repeat it gladly,
and I can add with the utmost sincerity
that our admiration has only augmented
and increased since that time. We have
attempted to intervene in your favour as
much as the situation permitted. We have
done all we could to stop this war, which
we deplore. But we are not listened to.
We have neither the right nor the power
to interfere in an affair which does not
concern us. We desire greatly that the
war should be finished. We have made
many efforts to arrive at least at an armistice,
but the Government in Paris has
refused the armistice which we have tried
to negotiate....”
He again fixed his blue eyes on me as
if to ask me: “Why has this armistice been
refused?”
It seemed to me to be an unfair question,
and I said with a certain amount of spirit:
“Pardon me, M. le Comte, one cannot
accuse the Government of Paris of rejecting
an armistice and means of coming
to terms. On the contrary, they have done
everything humanly possible to bring it
about, but an armistice without re-victualling—that
is to say, an armistice with the
prospect of starving Paris out, while
Prussia is recruiting her strength, was
not acceptable, and Prussia refused any
other kind of armistice.”
“This refusal,” said he, mechanically
lowering his eyes, “was not reasonable.
An armistice would have prevented many
inconveniences to Prussia and considerable
difficulties to France, and the Government
could, at any rate, have profited by it to
form a legal representation of the country.”
I was astonished at these words which
appeared to me absolutely unfair.
“What?” said I. “You consider it a
reasonable thing to offer a twenty-five days’
armistice, without re-victualling, to a town
of two millions which has been besieged
for three months?
“Why, that would be taking away
exactly so many days from the resistance
of this courageous town, which has
shown in its days of misfortune that it
was something more than a city of
pleasure. Prussia’s acceptance of negotiations
for an armistice could have had no
meaning without at least the re-victualling
of the city. By her refusal she has made
the armistice impossible, and on her must
fall the responsibility of breaking off the
negotiations. It is she who has refused
an armistice desired by the whole world.”
“No, it was not unreasonable,” he again
answered me. “Prussia would have lost
much too much during a twenty-five days’
armistice.” And he went on to give the
most detailed reasons why the refusal was
not an “unreasonable” one.
This was his principal argument:—
If the armistice had not been successful
in producing peace, Prussia would have
lost precious time which she would have
been obliged to pass in inaction. She
would thus herself have prolonged the term
of sacrifices and of sufferings which the
war necessarily imposed on her, and she
would have lost this precious time without
any kind of compensation.
“Your Government,” added the noble
lord, “formally instructed M. Thiers to
reject the armistice, so it is not Prussia
that has to be considered responsible.”
It is difficult for two persons to come to
an understanding if they start from such
different points of view that one says to
the other “This is just” where the other
only sees a manifest injustice.
It was easy for me to see that Lord
Granville would depart from none of his
views, and would answer all my arguments
by contrary ones. So it seemed useless to
discuss the point any longer. I contented
myself with saying that the actual Government
of France would have been glad to
convoke a National Assembly to share its
heavy burdens, had they been allowed to
do so.
“The devoted men,” I said, “at the head
of our nation have picked up the fallen
reins of power solely to arm the nation
and organise national defence against the
invasion. They are not ambitious of
honours. They have arrogated to themselves
only the duties of power, and they
have done so with the sole idea of national
defence.
“They would have been glad to convoke
the delegates of the nation and place their
power in the hands of a freely elected
National Assembly, and it is solely and entirely
for this end that they have demanded
an armistice. Perhaps they would have
been content with less than twenty-five
days,” I added, in order to sound Lord
Granville on this question.
This remark was to his liking. He interrupted
me briskly and asked me: “How
many days do you think would be enough
for the elections?”
I answered that, at the narrowest computation
of what was strictly necessary, I
thought that it would take perhaps twelve
to fifteen days to carry out the elections,
but that I was in no sense qualified nor
competent to say so, and this was merely
my personal opinion. “But then,” said
he, “the Government would do well to
proceed to election in this delay and to
ask for a twelve days’ armistice. It would
be a great advantage for you if the country
had a legal representation.”
“Would Prussia accept?”
“Yes,” said he, “she would have
accepted any armistice without re-victualling....”
Then, as if he had gone too
far, and, as it were, to correct himself,
he immediately added that of course he
had no means of knowing what were the
dispositions at this moment of the Prussian
General Staff. He did not know whether
they were still inclined to grant an armistice,
and he did not like to promise us
anything with regard to this....
Such was the dominant note I encountered
in all my official conversations:
an unmeasured fear of being exposed and
compromised.
To reassure him I answered: “Do
not think, M. le Comte, that I will take
you at your word. I do not think the
National Defence Government is willing
to accept the responsibility of an armistice
with the prospect of starving Paris
out, even though it be only for twelve
days.”
“But,” he answered, “since Paris could
hold out a long time yet, as you have
just told me, twelve days cannot hurt her
much and twelve days will give you the
immense advantage of having the country
constitutionally represented.”
He developed the idea that up to the
present the National Defence Government
was only a de facto Government, and that
it would be in its highest interests to have
a National Representative at its side on
which to lean.
I replied that his observation was
subject to correction; that the National
Defence Government was not only a de
facto Government, but was approved within
the country and recognised without as a
legal and regular government. However,
there was nothing it more ardently desired
than the chance of convoking a National
Assembly. “I will,” I said, “faithfully
transmit your excellent suggestions to my
Government.”
“How can you communicate with the
Government in Paris?” he asked.
I was very glad that he put this question,
for it was my intention to ask him
to intervene so that I might be able to
return to Paris in order to report directly
and personally to my Government all the
information I had gathered since the time
I left.
But as I did not wish to interrupt the
trend of our conversation, I answered that
I should like to speak on this subject later,
before taking my leave, and I asked him
to have the kindness to continue developing
his ideas regarding the question of the
“Representation of the Country.”
Lord Granville then discussed two other
methods of creating what he called the
“legal representation of the country.” In
asking for a “legal” representation he was
above all guided by the following idea,
which seemed to preoccupy him considerably,
for he often came back to it; there
was actually no longer a “legal” authority
in France; there was a de facto Government,
but it had not received legal sanction.
“There is no one,” he repeated, “under
existing conditions, who has the right of
treating in the name of France, and
Prussia would not even know with whom to
come to an understanding when the moment
arrives for discussing conditions of peace.”
It was with this event in view that he
so desired the meeting of a national
assembly. It was no use telling him he
was mistaken—for I considered it essential
to show him the true situation; he
persisted in his opinion; and these were
the two means which appealed to him
for arriving at the creation of a National
Representation:—
First of all, he thought, the Conseils
Généraux might furnish a Constitutional
Assembly.
After developing the details of his point
of view and the advantages which were
to be gained from such an Assembly, he
finished his remarks by this question:
“Why will you not have recourse to the
Conseils Généraux?”
I told him that the Conseils Généraux
had no constitutional right to represent
the nation. He seemed to admit
my argument, and reverted to his first
idea:—
“But why not have the Elections without
an armistice?”
His previous remarks, when we were
speaking about M. Thiers, had sufficiently
shown me the gist of his thoughts. He
wanted to see Elections held in France
by any means whatever, even without an
armistice.
I could not accept such a proposition
and I refused to understand how a statesman,
anxious for the dignity as well as
for the material interests of his country
could give such advice. Elections in a
country invaded by the enemy! Elections
under the enemy’s gun-fire! Elections
at a time when every citizen was under
arms against the invader, elections, in a
word, while Prussia was bombarding Paris
and advancing her armies! That was an
idea which I simply could not grasp. I
tried, but in vain, to make him share my
perplexity. Moreover, I had encountered
the same idea with M. de Beust.
At the time I could not understand it
and it revolted me. To-day I can see how
the idea arose and held its own simultaneously
in the minds of these two
eminent statesmen, who held the reins of
Government in two countries so different
in origin, constitution and tendencies.
The National Defence Government was
only, when all was said and done, a de
facto Government.
The men who composed it had picked
up the Executive when it fell from the
Empire’s hands, only for the purpose of
not letting it fall into the gutter, and for
using it to defend the country against the
invaders. These men certainly had the
confidence of Europe, and their Government
was immediately and gladly recognised
by all the Powers; it had been
recognised and respected even by the
enemy.
But side by side with this de facto
Executive there also remained the débris
of the fallen Government, which had by
no means renounced its past, and still
lived in the hope of coming back and
again laying hands on the Crown, which
though fallen they still thought unbroken.
On the other side there were demagogues,
orators and low-class politicians,
all that unhealthy ferment which had
burst out on the 31st of October and
nearly overthrown the National Defence
Government.
The latter, it is true, had conquered this
first revolt, but the pretensions and aspirations
of the party which had caused the
rising were not conquered. They were
only pushed out of the way and reduced
to silence, but they still smouldered in the
ashes and no one knew when they might
not break out afresh, or whether the
Government would again be as fortunate
in reducing them to impotence and maintaining
its authority.
This is what seriously preoccupied
foreign statesmen and inspired them
with the idea of creating a “legal representative,”
in any manner whatever, by
any means and at any price. Above all
they wanted to guard against unexpected
surprises. Before all and above all they
wanted to have an authority to deal with,
which was not only a Government de
facto but a Government that had been
consecrated—even if only apparently—by
the votes of the French people, and that
could by that token be accepted by all
parties and be safe from sudden attacks
and ambushes. This is why Lord Granville
first asked me to have recourse to
the Conseils Généraux of the Empire, and
when I showed him the impossibility of
such a solution, this is why he suggested
that we should simply hold the Elections
without any armistice, by carrying them
through as quickly as possible.
I should have liked to show him again
how unfair and impossible I considered
his proposition, but it would have been
preaching in the wilderness, and so all
I said was: “What would you do in the
provinces that are invaded and occupied
by the enemy?”
The noble lord’s answer showed me,
more than anything I have said up till
now, what were the thoughts which exclusively
obsessed him.
Lord Granville was not embarrassed by
my question. He thought one could simply
get the votes of the yet unoccupied provinces,
and that that would be enough to
obtain a “Representation of the Nation.”
I began to have less and less understanding
of the Minister’s arguments, and carried
away by feelings which I had difficulty in
controlling, I answered with spirit: “No,
M. le Comte, France will never hold Elections
in such a manner.”
Did Lord Granville feel the bitterness
of his proposal, or did he understand the
uselessness of insisting on it? Whichever
it may be, he answered me in roughly
these words: “I understand. But let me
see if I cannot convince you. As you do
not want to have Elections without an
armistice, and as the Conseils Généraux
cannot serve for the composition of a Constitutional
Assembly—you have explained the
reasons and I quite understand them—then
why have you not accepted an armistice?
You say that you think twelve days might
at a pinch be enough for the Elections.
Then why do you not ask for a twelve
days’ armistice?” Without waiting for
my answer he went on to say: “Think
well and look the facts in the face. Prussia
could push her troops even further into
France. She could occupy the whole
country and would always be in the
situation which is troubling us, that of
not knowing with whom to treat for
peace.” I think that at this point Lord
Granville touched as it were on the possibility
of restoring the Empire. To be more
exact, he allowed me glimpses of a theory,
timidly and in terms that were so vague
that they have escaped my memory, that
Prussia might very well come to the idea,
failing a better one, of treating with the
last Government which France had had.
And without waiting for my reply he
continued: “France has given an exhibition
of military courage which has aroused
the admiration of the world, but there is
also a civil courage which a great people
must not neglect, and which is even greater
and more admirable than military courage.
You have done great things, but you must
now have the civil courage which consists
in recognising your true situation and in
ceasing to sacrifice the precious blood of
your children when such a sacrifice can
no longer be of use.”
“M. le Comte,” said I, “I thank you
sincerely for the expressions of admiration
you have just uttered. Coming from you
they have great value, but I believe that
though you admire our military courage
you take too black a view of the situation.
We have not reached that point yet.
“Paris, wonderful Paris, the heart and
the hope of France, has held out. She
is on her feet and inflamed with the desire
to defend herself, and she will defend herself
for a long time yet. The great city
is not yet ready for surrender, and the
provinces are only beginning to awaken.
In but a little while they will bring against
Prussia, who is accustomed to the idea that
there are no more soldiers in France, a
young but enthusiastic army, and it will
not be the first time that young French
recruits have beaten the seasoned armies
of Prussia. There is the truth. Military
courage, therefore, is not yet useless. It
is not yet beaten and need not yet hand
over the fate of the country to that elder
brother whom you have well called “civil
courage.”
Lord Granville answered: “If you think
your resistance can bring about a better
result for you, you are right in continuing
the struggle, however unequal it may be.
But if this only serves to weaken the
country even more, the men who have
the fate of the nation in their hands are
in duty bound to stop and not to ask
for useless sacrifices from this courageous
people. The resources of France are immense;
we know it well. She will very
quickly lift herself up from these temporary
disasters.”...
M. de Beust, it will be remembered, had
already expressed the same idea....
“Yes,” continued Lord Granville, “she
will recover very quickly. Her elasticity
is wonderful, but one must not put it to
too severe a test. One must not break the
springs.”
I found pleasure in hearing him speak
in this manner, and I began to like his
slow and well-weighed words, which so
far had not given me much encouragement.
Lord Granville had shown a certain
warmth in admiring the resources
and the “wonderful elasticity” of France.
He finished by laying weight on his words:
“Your Government’s responsibility in continuing
the conflict is great, for the nation
itself has not yet pronounced on the serious
question: Does it want war to continue
ad infinitum?
“Your Government is full of confidence
in the vitality of the country and refuses
to surrender to Prussian demands, but you
do not know what are the feelings of the
nation. And if the nation is not of your
way of thinking, or if your Government
is mistaken, if instead of pushing back the
enemy you were to see him advance still
further? His demands would only be
increased and you would have imposed
sacrifices on your country that are as
fruitless as they are painful.”
It was difficult not to admit the justice
of this reasoning, and I did not hesitate
to tell him so. But I again and insistently
asked him to reflect and to admit
that it was impossible to go to the country
to sound its feelings while the enemy refused
us the physical means of doing so. I
assured him that the Government would
have been happy to be able to consult the
country, and that even now there was no
greater nor more pressing desire; but how
was it to be effected?
“Can one make Electors come together
with rifles on their shoulders in order to
vote, while the Prussians are advancing
to occupy our towns? Is it not evident
that to have Elections we must have an
armistice?
“Just now,” I said, “I think I gathered
that if you had a counsel to give us it
would be to try and have the Elections in
the shortest possible time, and to ask for
a shorter armistice than in the previous
negotiations, which fell through over the
question of re-victualling. Would you in
such a case offer your good services, and
would you charge yourself with reopening
the negotiations on this matter?” He
answered: “I have already told M. Thiers
that the best form of negotiation would
be for you to address the General Staff
at Versailles direct and without intermediary.”
I pointed out to Lord Granville that he
himself knew the situation sufficiently well
to foresee that the result of direct negotiations
with the General Staff at Versailles
could only be negative. “Besides,” I said,
“the question which I have taken the
liberty of putting to you had its sole
raison d’être in our conversation. The
question was born of the moment and is
part of a purely personal reflection. It was
only suggested to me by my desire to show
you how much I have at heart the understanding
of the remarks which I have the
honour of hearing from your lips.”
After Lord Granville’s advice to address
ourselves direct to the General Staff at
Versailles, it was clear to me that the only
wish of the English Government was not
to expose itself, to keep strictly and
prudently out of the way and to interfere
in the negotiations as little as possible—that
is to say, to have nothing to do with
them. For all this there was a peremptory
reason. It was not entirely lack of goodwill,
but the fear of compromising themselves.
Everywhere I observed this exaggerated
fear of being dragged into a conflict with
Prussia. At that time I regarded this feeling
as one of weakness, but on reflection
it seems to me that it must be judged
less severely. One cannot arm from one
day to another. Moreover, a great Power
cannot raise its voice without giving its
words the support of arms should it not
be listened to. And Prussia, as I have
already said, would have listened to
nothing, unless it were a general at the
head of a strong army. Now England
at that time had no army either. She was
in a complete state of peace. Besides, had
she not been warned by her rebuff from the
Prussian General Staff that she had only
one thing to do: keep quiet!
In fact if Lord Granville thus sent me
back to Versailles to re-open negotiations
for an armistice it was because “Odo”—that
is the Christian name by which he
called the Under-Secretary of State, Mr.
Odo Russell, who was with the General
Staff—had written him that M. de Bismarck
would no longer listen to him. “M. Odo,”
said he, “wrote to me only yesterday that
France had now better approach the
General Staff direct and that M. de
Bismarck has nothing further to say
to me.”
It was an irrefutable argument, and the
least I could do to repay such frankness
was not to insist any more, unless it were
openly to ask the Secretary of State that
England should go to war.
But yet I did not wish to retire. Seeing
that Lord Granville still listened to me with
interest and appeared in no hurry to terminate
our interview, I moved the armchair,
on which I was seated and which
I had pushed back a little during the last
part of our conversation, a little nearer to
him. His knees nearly touched mine. I
looked at him, trying to read into his blue
eyes, and I said:—
“You have received me so kindly that I
would like to speak as frankly as you will
allow me. I am young, M. le Comte, and
I am still younger in diplomacy....”
“And I am old in diplomacy,” he
answered, laughing and showing a line of
very white teeth which seemed formally
to belie his words.
“You must therefore be indulgent to me
and my inexperience....”
“I have not noticed it,” said he, laughing
again, in order to encourage me.
“And if you find that I am perhaps too
persistent you will lay the blame on my
inexperience and the youthfulness of my
heart. I cannot remain calm and master
my emotion, when I think of Europe to-day
and of the actual situation in France. It
is a situation that you know well.
“Now you have given us advice, a good
and excellent piece of advice, and the advice
of a friend. You have told us: Hold your
Elections. I have pointed out the impossibility
of doing so without an armistice....
And you send me back to the General
Staff at Versailles to get it!
“I assure you, M. le Comte, that means
war, the continuation of war to the point
of exhaustion. France will not yield; she
will continue to defend herself to the last
man; she will let her territory be invaded
down to the last village rather than accept
unacceptable conditions.
“Will Europe continue as an impassive
spectator of this terrible conflict?
“Will England continue to fold her arms
without intervening to stop the carnage
between two peoples?”
“We can do nothing to stop it,” he
objected.
“But,” I said, “what a great and
wonderful part you could play! You
would stop a barbarous war of destruction
between two civilised peoples, give
back to Europe the peace she so ardently
desires, and of which she has as much
need as France herself after these terrible
conflicts, after the entire upsetting of all
political, economic and financial relationships.
You would thus create for yourselves
a striking claim to the gratitude not
only of France, your ancient friend and
ally, but also of the whole of Europe.
With your great experience you can yourself
clearly see that if we remain alone to
deal with our enemy, his demands will be
such that peace cannot be concluded in a
lasting fashion.
“Therefore your intervention would be a
service to all Europe.
“And all this would cost you no great
sacrifice. There would be no need for you
to go to war against Germany. It would
be enough for you to take up a firm and
resolute attitude such as reason, humanity
and forethought for the future all dictate
to you.”
“And if they do not listen to us? We
cannot make war on Prussia! We have
done all we could; we have made many
representations at Versailles, but they will
no longer listen to us.”
“Because you have not dared to speak
as one must speak in order to be listened
to. Because you have not dared or wished
to speak the strong words which alone
carry weight with Prussia and because
you have confined yourselves to timid
observations and discreet counsels, hesitatingly
offered ... and which you scarcely
dared to offer.
“Prussia will certainly not yield to these!
But if you were to change your tone, you
would very quickly see Prussia change her
attitude.”
“But what attitude do you want us to
take up, and what do you mean by
“strong” words?”
“I will tell you, M. le Comte; say this
to Prussia:—
“You have attained unprecedented successes
and you have completely and
entirely gained all your desires. A new
conflict will add nothing to the advantages
you have gained. Therefore stop
now, for the war is now beginning to
become a war of racial destruction. Stop,
and give the French Government a chance
of consulting with the people, and then
conclude peace with it. Do not refuse
Europe the peace which she has need of.”
—“But if Prussia pays no attention to
these words?”
—“You must support your words by
arms, I admit. But that will not be war,
because you do not want to make war.
No, it will not be war, because Prussia
does not want it any more than you do.
But Prussia will yield before the possibility
of seeing England entering the fight at a
time when she has need of all her strength
to finish off with France alone.”
“How should you know that?” he
answered. “What guarantee can you give
me? Allow me to tell you,” and he smiled
very graciously in order to sweeten his
words, “you are not in the counsels of the
King at Versailles and you cannot know
anything about it any more than I can.”
“I do not know, it is true; but may
one not make calculations?
“You know even better than I how immensely
the whole of Germany desires to
see the war ended. Prussia thinks that
with France alone she will soon reach her
goal. Will she be willing to prolong the
war and in a sense renew it with a great
Power like England? And I am entitled
to tell you that England would not be
alone with France in such a war.
“I have just come from Vienna. I was
told at Vienna, and authorised to repeat
it to you, that Austria is disposed to go
hand-in-hand with England in everything
that concerns France. Austria would
follow England if the latter would decide
to intervene effectively in favour of
France.”
“... Who told you that?” Lord
Granville quickly interrupted me. “Was
it M. de Beust?”
As I saw that Lord Granville was in no
way inclined to do what I asked him, it
did not seem necessary to answer him
and perhaps to compromise a sincere and
devoted friend by publishing the secret of
his friendly disposition towards ourselves.
So I answered this question by saying that,
if Lord Granville would be kind enough
to wait a moment, I would later on tell
him who was the person in question. The
promise, however, had been made me in
Vienna, it had been made in full view of
its provoking action on the part of England,
and I had been expressly authorised to
speak of it here.
“But that would be war—and we do not
want war!” he answered energetically.
“No, it will not be war. On the contrary,
it will be the end of war,” I said with
spirit. “It is certainly very bold of me to
want to foresee events better than you and
contradict a view which appears to you
sound. But I say it with conviction, it will
not be war. No, it will be peace, and a peace
worthy of two nations, a durable peace.
“And this is the reason why. In the
face of European intervention, brought
about by the initiative of England, Prussia
would be obliged to diminish her exorbitant
pretensions, and France would, on her side,
be reasonable and listen to the counsels of
Europe.
“You know from his action at Ferrières
what M. Jules Favre’s policy is.
“That policy has not been changed.
“We are decided to continue the fight
to the last limits of human strength, as
against demands which we cannot accept.
But we are ready, France is ready, to
accept any conditions which are not incompatible
with her honour.
“Effective intervention on the part of
England would therefore mean peace, and
a durable peace, because it would be consented
to without humiliation for the conquered
side, for valiant France who will
always, in spite of her actual defects,
remain a great and chivalrous nation.”
My persistence did not appear to satisfy
Lord Granville. He followed me willingly
on every question and infused much spirit
and cordiality into the conversation, but
every time I came back to the noble rôle
that England might play by using her
authority and power for effective intervention,
he seemed painfully impressed
and impatient to terminate the discussion.
Perhaps he himself felt, without
caring to confess it, that I was right
when I showed him the splendid part his
country might play in the sanguinary
drama that was being enacted in France,
and perhaps his were the painful feelings
of a man who is obliged to fight against
his own convictions. In any case, the
subject seemed to importune him and try
his patience.
On this occasion he answered me that
France must not forget that it was definitely
she who had commenced the war.
Our conversation turned at length round
this point, the declaration of war by the
Empire, the military consequences of the
Empire’s fall and the change in the very
nature of the war. But these questions
are no longer of interest to-day, and I
pass them by. Our conversation had
already lasted more than an hour, and
I was getting ready to say good-bye to Lord
Granville.
“If I have understood you aright,” I
said, “you will do absolutely nothing
for us?”
“Personally I should like to do all that
is in my power. For you see,” he added,
with a sincere and almost paternal air, “I
am fond of France and the French, and
I would be happy to contribute to your
success. But as a statesman I must tell
you that we cannot make war for France.
War, you see, is a terrible thing, and one
must think well before going to war. You
are a more warlike people than we are; the
French fight for an idea, and that would be
impossible for us. When we closed the last
Session of Parliament, we undertook not
to deviate from the strictest neutrality, and
we were applauded by Parliament. We
cannot go before Parliament now and
proclaim war. We have not the right
and we cannot do it.”
“But, if I am well informed,” I objected,
“a war with Prussia would not actually
meet with much opposition from public
opinion. It seems to me that such a war
would, on the contrary, be popular in
England.” I also said that the situation
had altered considerably since the English
Cabinet had given its parting message to
Parliament.
“France is to-day fighting for a just
cause. She is defending hearth and home
and the integrity of her soil. She has given
proof of extraordinary strength and vigour
in this unequal and terrible combat and she
has regained that which she had lost by the
declaration of war—I mean the sympathies
of the entire world. That is why public
opinion has changed also in England, and
that is why I believe that effective intervention
would in England to-day be a
popular action.” Lord Granville answered
me: “Let me explain the true situation of
our country in this matter. The military,
particularly the officers, are in favour of
France. They want war. Then there is a
numerous enough party among the working-class
population who share this sentiment.
But all the rest of the population have
ideas which differ according to the political
opinions which they profess. We have
Republicans, Imperialists, Orleanists, Legitimists,
etc. You see we have seriously
considered the question,” he went on to
say, “we don’t want to speak without
being able to give our words the support
that is necessary to make them heard. If
Prussia did not listen to us, we could not
let it remain at that, and we are quite
decided to keep the undertaking we have
made to Parliament. That is why we
cannot do more than we have done up till
now.”
“Which means,” I said, “that you can
do nothing?”
“Not so,” he answered. “But for the
moment we can do nothing. Later on,
when peace conditions are discussed, we
will be able to intervene in the negotiations
more successfully.”
“Later on!” I exclaimed. “Do you
know what will happen later on, M. le
Comte. Later on one of two things will
happen; either we shall be victorious and
we will push the Prussians back; that is
what I hope, and then we will have need
of no one; or we shall be conquered,
and then you will dare to speak even less
than now; at any rate, Prussia will then
pay no more attention to your words than
she does now. If you do not want to be
condemned never to act, you must act
now.”
Lord Granville answered: “I don’t want
you to leave me under the slightest illusion
on this matter. I have already said so
to M. Thiers—we cannot deviate from the
strict neutrality which we have observed
till to-day.” He added that Prussia had
long been complaining about England’s
interpretation of neutrality in delivering
arms to France and so prolonging her
resistance. But he, Lord Granville, had
answered that such had been England’s
conduct since the beginning of the war,
that her conduct was perfectly compatible
with strict neutrality, and that she was not
going to change it now, etc.
I answered: “Your reply, M. le Comte,
is distinct and categorical, and I thank you
for it. Only let me present one last consideration.
It concerns the Eastern question.
Have you nothing to fear on that
side? Do you not think that France’s
word will one day be useful and her help
precious?
“You do not want to make war now,
but perhaps you may be forced to make
it later, and then you will be isolated
and alone because you have abandoned
France, your old friend and natural ally,
in the hour of danger. Think of the
future, M. le Comte! France has a
future; she will recover from this war
and she will be stronger, greater, and more
powerful, because she has given proof
of her wonderful vitality and energy in
adversity. Our fleet will then be able to
play a great rôle. If you abandon us now
you may be alone in your turn when you
are forced to take up arms and have need
of an ally.”
“When we are forced to it,” said he,
“well, we will take up arms and we will
go to war....” But he said that England
was not for the moment in this situation
and consequently he did not see the necessity
for changing her policy. His Government
would never take the formidable decision
of dragging the country into war
without being absolutely obliged to do so.
He once more recalled the terms with
which the last Session of Parliament had
closed, and the terrible responsibility for
a Government to precipitate a nation into
the sufferings and miseries of war. Then,
after some protestations of friendship towards
France, he finished with these
words:—
“I do not want to leave the slightest
misapprehension in your mind, and would
like to continue elaborating my ideas.”
He then definitely laid down as it were
into an unchangeable proposition, the
reasons which he had indicated why it
was impossible to change anything in the
policy that England had observed up till
now.
Our Interview was at an end. Only I
did not want to leave Lord Granville
without saying a word on the impossibility
of restoring the Empire.
He had done no more than hint at the
idea that the Empire might possibly be
restored to France by the enemy, and his
allusions were so slight and, I might almost
say, so intangible, that when an hour afterwards
I returned to my lodging and made
notes of the principal passages in our conversation,
I found it impossible exactly to
remember the terms he had employed in
speaking of it.
However, he often came back to this
point. Even when he insisted that the
National Defence Government would do
well to call a National Assembly under
any conditions whatsoever, even without
an armistice, one of his arguments consisted
in pointing out the possibility of an
Imperial Restoration. “At the worst,” he
insinuated, “Prussia might well negotiate
with what remains of the Empire.”
I therefore thought it would be useful
not to let this idea take root in his mind,
and to make him understand that it was
a pure delusion, which it would even be
dangerous to entertain. I told him that
I did not know up to what point competent
men in England were capable of seriously
regarding such an event as being possible
in France, but if they believed in it for a
single moment they would be strangely
deceived. The restoration of the Empire
was henceforward absolutely impossible.
The supporters of the fallen régime had
absolutely no illusions on this point.
“They themselves are perfectly aware,”
I continued, “at least, those who have remained
in France, that the country is no
longer with them, and that the prisoner
of Wilhelmshohe will never remount the
throne of France, neither he nor those that
are his. Sedan has for ever demolished
the Napoleonic Idea, and the bloodstained
and terrible ending of the Second Empire
has for ever cured the nation of all
dangerous legends. To-day we know too
well what it costs a great country to give
itself a master whose only merit is an illustrious
name, and there is no temptation to
again give way to that sort of madness!
He who is to-day the enemy’s willing
prisoner has fallen too low for a proud
nation like France ever to forget the disgrace.
Has the unhappy Emperor even
to-day no fear of accusing, against all
sense of justice, the brave country which
was formerly his Empire, of having wanted
and provoked the war? His return to
France would be the signal for a general
rising, and if Prussia wanted to attempt it
she would be obliged to protect him with
her armies and so perpetuate the war
instead of definitely terminating it.”
Our conversation had lasted more than
an hour and a half, and it was at Lord
Granville’s own wish that it had done so,
for he had been interrupted several times.
On each occasion I rose to retire, but he
had held me back every time, graciously
and with the serious insistence of a man
who does not wish to interrupt a subject
which he does not yet consider exhausted.
When at last I took my leave of him, he
wrung my hand cordially and said he
would be happy to obtain me a safe conduct
which would allow me to go back
to Paris, and that he would ask for it
to-morrow morning.
In our conversation, as has been seen,
I did not conceal my desire to find a
means of returning to Paris. I would thus
be able to describe to the National Defence
Government the general situation in Europe,
and the attitude of the Cabinets and the
sentiments of the Courts of Vienna and
London.
Lord Granville heard my wishes very
affably, and was at great pains to help
them. So I did not hesitate to profit
from his disposition, and begged him to
ask for a safe conduct for me.
Unfortunately my desire and his were
not realised. Next day Lord Granville
informed me that the démarche had not
succeeded and that he had been refused the
safe conduct which he had asked for me.